Via Bitesize Bio, an interesting perspective on Postdoc life vs PI life. Of course, it’s possibly a little premature to be thinking about such issues when I’ve just finished my first year in graduate school, but the first paragraph in particular caught my eye:

The postdoc (and grad student, for that matter) perspective is — and I recognize it both from my own experience and my colleagues — that you come up with most of the ideas, do all the work, and the PI just takes the credit. It is a bit exaggerated, but the point is that the vast majority of the time spend on a project is time spent by a postdoc or grad student. The advisor reads the occasional draft paper, comment on the research a bit here and there, but doesn’t really put in the hours.

A few weeks ago, I chose my thesis lab and jumped right back into benchwork, picking up my rotation project from where I left off at the end of last November. My P.I. conceived the project, tailoring it to my specific interests (there’s a reason why no other roton worked on the same project), and most of the ideas have emerged as a collaboration. In any case, I don’t feel as if my P.I. “just takes the credit”: though I obviously do all the actual experimental work, she provides me with input at every level starting from suggestions about adjusting protocols to the larger picture of what this project aims to contribute to the field. She’s very careful to acknowledge my intellectual input when talking about the project to third parties, and I feel that I have sufficient independence to take the project in directions that interest me. So far, I’ve felt that I’m receiving the right level of guidance while also being encouraged to take initiative and explore ideas on my own.

I wonder if my satisfaction with her mentorship style will decline over the years. Disillusionment with graduate school (cf. Grad School Malaise) seems to be inevitable; what makes the difference is whether you regard it as a temporary phase induced by stress and sense of failure or whether you feel that you made the wrong decision to pursue a career in research. That being said, I do benefit from the fact that my P.I. is a fairly new faculty member, whose lab is small enough that she has enough time to spend guiding each student. I also think that compatibility of personalities helps.

My other two rotations had P.I.s with extremely different mentorship styles: the hands-off P.I. who only touched base with his students’ projects if they had an urgent question or during their lab meeting and the bullying but attention-deficit P.I. who goes around arguing with his students over what experiments they should do next (and berating them for not working long enough hours). Ironically, I think both P.I.s can actually be ideal for certain students, depending on what sort of mentorship they’re looking for. Personally, I think I could have managed in both labs but I would not have been as happy; one of the reasons why I chose this particular lab over both was because I thought the P.I. struck the right balance in her mentorship style.

5 Comments

    • mailund
    • Posted 24 May 2008 at 11:11
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    The first paragraph in my post is a bit provocative and doesn’t actually represent the post in general :) I am taking an extreme position in the first paragraph, but the rest of the post is actually taking the opposite view.

    I think there is some truth to what you have quoted me saying here, I really do, but it is exaggerated. What you write about mentor styles, I completely agree with, and is not far from what I tried to say in my own post.

    Thing is, I’ve heard (and done) a lot of bitching about the PI during my PhD studies and my postdocs, and that is what I was quoting in the first paragraph, but now that I am moving unto the PI life instead, I am getting a different perspective and I was trying to represent both views in my post (while I still remember the postdoc POV).

  1. Hello! Thanks for replying. Sorry, I didn’t intend to misrepresent your post by only including the first paragraph. However, I’ve heard similar sentiments from grad students and post-docs before. I was wondering whether the reason I didn’t feel the same way about my P.I. was because I was lucky in my choice of mentor or because I simply hadn’t been in the lab long enough to grow disappointed yet. :)

    • mailund
    • Posted 29 May 2008 at 10:04
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    I was actually thinking about writing a follow-up post on my own block addressing your post, but got distracted and never got around to it. Now I’ll just add a comment here and link to it instead :)

    First off, no hard feelings about any misrepresenting of my post! What you quote is exactly the sentiment I was writing about and is as good a starting point for a discussion as any. I just wanted to make my point clearer in case there were any misunderstandings.

    What you quote me saying *is* a common complaint from grad students and post docs and one I have heard plenty of times (and made myself just as often). I wrote my post as a comment to some other blog posts discussing this, and I felt I was in a unique position to comment on research life from both a postdoc and PI point of view, as I am just in the middle of the transition between the two positions.

    I won’t go into the details of that discussion — I think I’ve done that in my original post.

    As for your own post, which I loved reading and found a very positive comment on the rest of the discussion, I think there *is* a bit of a bias in your points.

    You could be very lucky with your PI. There are a lot of great supervisors out there, and I have met plenty of people who loved their post doc work and never complains about it, and if you end up one of those, then you are very lucky indeed.

    From my experience, though, you are less likely to be that lucky than you are likely to end up complaining about it all. If I had to make a bet, I would bet that you will end up complaining. You can make a simple test of this by asking around in your group, or just listen to your colleagues when they bitch about work at the pub.

    When work is going well, no one complaints, but research is all about trying something new, and new stuff rarely works. If your experiments work out 10% of the time, you are very lucky. So you cannot judge research life by how it is when things are going well, you have to consider the days when nothing works, all experiments fail, and you are just fed up with everything.

    In those situations, how much support will you get, and will you feel that it is enough?

    You will be stressed. You will be depressed. You will look for excuses for your failures, and it is just so much easier to blame someone else than yourself. This is just human nature, and there is nothing wrong with it. Go to the pub and complain about your supervisor to your friends, and you will feel better.

    I think this situation explains 90% of the cases where people complain about their supervisor.

    A few days later, when things are working out better in your research, ask yourself: “do I really feel that way, or was I just venting my frustrations?” If you decide on the later, you are fine.

    From the PI point of view, now, I’ll confess that if he is anything like myself, he will feel the disappointments, the stress, and the depression as well from time to time.

    Why did the post doc make such stupid mistakes that were easy to recognize and just as easy to avoid? If only I had smarter post docs, our group would do a lot better, we would publish more, and I wouldn’t have to spend so much time helping them out while I am busy with this grant application…

    A few days later, he will think about it a bit and conclude that it is a pretty good group, doing great work, and he couldn’t really wish for a better bunch.

    Research life is just stressful, and we end up in situations like this all the time. It is also a great way to spend your life, ’cause the rewards more than make up for it! When you discover something new, you are high on it for days.

    Anyway, to cut a comment — that is already way too long — short: We spend a lot of time in our work under pressure and we do not necessarily appreciate that so do all of our colleagues. The stress is caused by different aspects of the academic life (figuring out the details of a complicated problem for a post doc vs. having to run a group and make sure that the group is funded next year as well), but we are all stressed and we complain about it.

    If you feel bad about your work all the time and if you start hating (I mean really *hating*) your PI, then something is wrong and your need to fix it. This happens — I can tell you stories, but I won’t in public ;-) — but it is rare. Very rare compared to the usual bitching, at least.

    Expect the honeymoon to end some day and expect to be disappointed with your PI, but don’t worry about it. When you leave the lab and move on, you will look back on it all a few years later and mostly remember the good times.

    That’s how it’s been for me, and I have done my share of bitching…

  2. The lab is very new (almost three years old now), which means that all the students are still in the honeymoon phase or at least haven’t gotten around to complaining yet. :) But thank you for your advice! I think you’re right that it’s harder to be optimistic when your experiments aren’t going well…mine certainly have been failing for the past few weeks, but luckily I haven’t reached the point of frustration where I’ve started wanting to shift the blame yet. (Ask me in another month, and we’ll see if I can still say the same.)

    And thank you as well for linking to this post!

    • mailund
    • Posted 29 May 2008 at 13:20
    • Permalink

    A month might still be a little soon but good luck! :)


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  1. [...] A little while back, I posted a few thoughts about the differences about post doc life and PI life.  A different perspective is posted here: Mentorship styles. [...]

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